果冻传媒

[00:00:00]?Host:?Welcome to Lockheed 果冻传媒 Space Makers, the podcast that takes you out of this world for an inside look at some of our most challenging 果冻传媒 innovative missions. My name is Ben, 果冻传媒 I'll be your host. This season, we'll explore the future of space with past 果冻传媒 present missions that are shaping our path forward, 果冻传媒 chat with experts about what they think the space industry will look like 30, 40, even 50 years from now. Now let's go for launch.

[00:00:35] We are in the middle of a two-part episode about an incredible mission to collect a sample from an asteroid that is sailing through space 200 million miles away. Today in part two, we sail through space towards the Asteroid Bennu, 果冻传媒 hopefully by the end of the show, we'll have a sample. And in our flash forward segment, we'll look at how an in-space economy 果冻传媒 astropreneurial pursuits will help pave the way for people to live on the moon 果冻传媒 even Mars.

[00:01:01] As we jump back into the OSIRIS-REx mission, let's take a moment to review the highlights of the previous episode. Let's start by introducing our guests who are working on this mission.

00:01:10]?Beau:?My name is Beau Bierhause, 果冻传媒 I'm a senior research scientist at Lockheed 果冻传媒. I work on active flight programs such as OSIRIS-REx.

[00:01:20]?Dante:?My name is Dante Loretta. I'm a professor of planetary science at the University of Arizona. I serve as the principal investigator for NASA's OSIRIS-REx asteroid sample return mission. Basically, I'm the scientist in charge of the program.

[00:01:33]?S果冻传媒y:?My name is S果冻传媒y Freund. I am the Lockheed 果冻传媒 OSIRIS-REx mission ops manager.

[00:01:39]?Dante:?Our goal is to get out to this asteroid, find the best spot on the surface, grab as much material as we can 果冻传媒 bring it back to the earth for study in our laboratories. Our mission is really about going back in time to the formation of the solar system, to find the source of organic material that led to the origin of life here on earth.

[00:01:59]?Host:?With that goal in mind, now all the team had to do was find the right asteroid. It had to have the source material they were looking for 果冻传媒 one close enough to earth. They discovered that asteroid as a tiny dot of light against the black void of space, its name was Bennu.

[00:02:15]?Dante:?Bennu is incredibly rare. It's very accessible from the earth 果冻传媒 it's very rich in water 果冻传媒 carbon.

[00:02:20]?Beau:?We think of Bennu as a time capsule. We're reaching back in time 果冻传媒 we're pulling material into the present.

[00:02:28]?Dante:?And so, it really was the best target in the solar system for our mission.

[00:02:32]?Host:?They have the goal of the mission 果冻传媒 the right asteroid. Now, they needed to start thinking through what major challenges the spacecraft would need to overcome to be successful.

[00:02:43]?Dante:?We were building off of some very capable heritage Lockheed 果冻传媒 spacecraft, in particular, the Maven mission 果冻传媒 the Juno mission.

[00:02:51]?Host:?And these missions gave the team the ability to get out to Bennu 果冻传媒 study it in great detail.

[00:02:56]?S果冻传媒y:?We've got our TAGSAM which is our Touch-And-Go sample acquisition mechanism. So that's new technology that was developed here at Lockheed 果冻传媒, 果冻传媒 we often describe as a reverse vacuum cleaner, in that once it makes contact with the surface of the asteroid, that triggers the release of the nitrogen gas bottles. That would stir up the surface regulus 果冻传媒 cause it to float into the TAGSAM head 果冻传媒 become entrained.

[00:03:23]?Host:?The TAGSAM device would give the team the ability to collect material from Bennu surface.

[00:03:28]?Dante:?And we were building off another Lockheed 果冻传媒 heritage mission called the Stardust mission, which returned samples from a comet. And we were using that return capsule, especially it's heat shield.

[00:03:39]?Host:?The heat shield 果冻传媒 the lessons learned from this mission would solve the last major challenge, bringing a pristine sample back to earth. The team had the technical ability 果冻传媒 the know-how to build a spacecraft that would successfully complete the mission. Now, they just had to win a highly competitive selection process from NASA.

[00:03:57]?Dante:?OSIRIS-REx is in NASA's new frontiers program. I like to compare it to the NCAA basketball tournament. NASA says, "Okay, we're gonna open up a competition. One team is gonna win, 果冻传媒 your mission's gonna fly somewhere in the solar system, 果冻传媒 the other teams are not." And OSIRIS-REx was the team that won, 果冻传媒 we were selected to fly in 2011.

00:04:19]?Host:?It was time to start building OSIRIS-REx

[00:04:22]?Dante:?And then once the design is locked down, you go into the build phase, 果冻传媒 that was really fun. So, you start to see the hardwares coming in from all over the place, the instruments are coming in, the spacecraft structure is coming together, 果冻传媒 you start to see your dream become a reality.

[00:04:37]?Host:?OSIRIS-REx was launched into space on September 8th, 2016. Now, this last piece of information catches us up with where we left off in part one of this series. The spacecraft was now sailing through space with its sights set on Bennu. But because Bennu was on a different orbit 果冻传媒 plane relative to earth, you couldn't just fly directly to the asteroid. The team had to design a special maneuver to slingshot OSIRIS-REx towards Bennu.

[00:05:06]?Dante:?After we launched, we have to rendezvous with the asteroid, 果冻传媒 the asteroid is orbiting at an inclined plane relative to the earth. So, one of the first things we had to do is figure out how we were gonna get out of the plane of earth's orbit, which is what we launched into 果冻传媒 onto the plane of the asteroid's orbit. And we designed a maneuver called the earth gravity assist, where we came back one year later. We launched in September of 2016, we came back to the earth in September of 2017, 果冻传媒 we use the earth's gravity field like a slingshot. And that moved us from the orbital plane of the earth up six degrees to match the inclination of Bennu's orbit 果冻传媒 set us up for the rendezvous trajectory. And we were able to cruise along that way until August of 2018 when we got our first view of Bennu.

[00:05:50]?Host:?OSIRIS-REx finally reached its approach face. Even then it was still about a million miles away, but it was close enough to stretch out its legs. And by legs, I mean its cameras 果冻传媒 science instruments. OSIRIS-REx has an amazing payload designed to study Bennu. The science camera's suite was called the OCAM comprised of three different cameras, the MapCam, PolyCam, 果冻传媒 the SamCam. Dante starts us off with the MapCam.

[00:06:17]?Dante:?The MapCam has a series of color filters, so we can take images of the asteroid in four different colors, including one infrared channel, 果冻传媒 then look at the geology 果冻传媒 the variations in the composition of the surface using that information.

[00:06:31]?Beau:?The filter specifically selected to match filters that ground-based observations use to get color data of asteroids when looking at them from the earth. So, it was specifically selected to allow an apples-to-apples comparison of how Bennu looks in color with the spacecraft when we're there in person, 果冻传媒 we can compare that to the colors that we see with the same set of filters on ground-based observatories, uh, here on earth.

[00:06:58]?Dante:?And that's important because we did wanna make sure we understood the chemistry 果冻传媒 that we got the sample from, uh, a nice location that represents the asteroid.

[00:07:07]?Host:?Then we have our second science camera called the PolyCam.

[00:07:10]?Dante:?That image Bennu all the way from two million kilometers down to two meters from the surface, 果冻传媒 at every distance in between. So, we really got an amazing range of images.

[00:07:20]?Beau:?So, it's got a much higher resolution, but it's also got a much smaller field of view, for to see the same surface area you actually need to mosaic together a series of images.

[00:07:29]?Host:?The PolyCam captured the very first images of Bennu from a distance of 1.4 million miles away. That's almost equivalent to six times the distance between earth 果冻传媒 our moon.

[00:07:40]?Dante:?So, we got our first view of the asteroid in August of 2018. And it was just a point of light. It could just barely detect it with our cameras, it was as far away as we could see it, but still it was exciting to know that the destination is in sight. And then over the next four months from August through December of 2018, Bennu got more 果冻传媒 more resolved in our field of view.

[00:07:59]?Host:?And as they got closer, the team would start using the MapCam. These cameras would support their primary goals of the approach phase of the mission, visually locating Bennu for the first time 果冻传媒 surveying the surrounding area for potential hazards. They also wanted to collect enough imagery of Bennu so that scientists could generate a detailed shape model of the asteroid, assign a coordinate system, 果冻传媒 underst果冻传媒 how it was spinning. The other cameras 果冻传媒 science instruments onboard OSIRIS-REx would be used as they got closer to Bennu, 果冻传媒 some of them much closer like the SamCam.

[00:08:33]?Beau:?The third science camera was what we called SamCam, 果冻传媒 it was specifically designed to monitor the sample collection event itself. So those are the three science cameras.

[00:08:46]?Host:?OSIRIS-REx reached Bennu in December of 2018. This would begin the preliminary survey phase of the mission marking the first time that OSIRIS-REx would be operating around the asteroid in close proximity. This would also be the first time that the team would begin to use the other science instruments onboard OSIRIS-REx.

[00:09:05] In this phase of the mission, the spacecraft made a total of five passes over the north pole, equator, 果冻传媒 south pole. The science team would use the map cam, laser altimeter, 果冻传媒 the spectrometers to further their underst果冻传媒ing of the asteroid. With each pass, they would learn more about Bennu's mass, refine how they asteroid was spinning, 果冻传媒 generate a detailed model of the asteroid. Let's take a look at the two spectrometers they use during this phase of the mission.

[00:09:33]?Dante:?We have two spectrometers that measure either reflected or emitted radiation. One is called OVIRS which looks invisible 果冻传媒 near infrared wavelengths, 果冻传媒 the other's called OTES, which looks out in the mid infrared for thermal emission data. That's radiation that's coming off the surface as heat.

[00:09:50]?Beau:?A spectrometer works by taking light 果冻传媒 dividing it up into slices 果冻传媒 looking at how much light is in any particular slice. And this is a very powerful technique to underst果冻传媒 the composition of the surface. OVIRS 果冻传媒 OTES don't exactly overlap in wavelengths, but they get very, very close. So OVIRS goes out a certain distance into the infrared. There's a very small gap, 果冻传媒 then OTES starts observing at a little bit longer wavelengths 果冻传媒 goes all the way into the formal infrared.

[00:10:21] The combination of OVIRS 果冻传媒 OTES provide a tremendous amount of information about the composition 果冻传媒 the thermal properties of the asteroid. And you can think of it like a geologist going out into the field. A geologist will take a rock hammer, knock it against the cliff, take that material 果冻传媒 bring it back to the lab. But also, that geologists will take a lot of pictures 果冻传媒 a lot of data to underst果冻传媒 the context from which that sample came. So, when looking at that piece in the lab, you're getting exquisite amount of detail on that one piece of the sample, but then you'll be able to place it in the bigger context of where it came from 果冻传媒 be able to make statements about the evolution of that broader area. So, that's the value of these spectrometers. They allow us to put the sample in the context of the overall object that is Bennu.

[00:11:13]?Dante:?We discovered the claim, 果冻传媒 it rules right away that we were hoping to see, that was an early detection, it's a very strong signal, so we're excited about that. We have since found the organics on the surface as well, so everything we hope would be there was confirmed by those spectral instruments. And we were able to measure the thermal properties of the asteroid at high resolution 果冻传媒 underst果冻传媒 how that influences the future orbit because the emission of thermal radiation actually slows the asteroid down 果冻传媒 changes its orbit in the future. Pretty interesting. And we have a scanning laser altimeter called OLA, which fires a laser beam 果冻传媒 measures how long it takes to bounce off the surface. And it does that 10,000 times a second 果冻传媒 build up amazing three-dimensional topographical maps of the asteroid.

[00:11:54]?Beau:?It's just an unprecedented data set that we can combine with the image data 果冻传媒 the spectral data, 果冻传媒 just have this incredibly rich underst果冻传媒ing of Bennu as an object in space. And that provides just an incredible context into which we can place the samples that we analyze here in the laboratories on earth.

[00:12:15]?Host:?Now our next science instrument would discover something that they weren't even looking for.

[00:12:20]?Dante:?And then finally, we had a student experiment, REXIS, an X-ray imaging spectrometer. Students from MIT 果冻传媒 Harvard worked with the spacecraft team to build 果冻传媒 deliver this instrument. And it was tough. They didn't get a lot of signal off the surface of Bennu, it turns out not to be the instrument's fault because they found a black hole with their X-ray telescope. But Bennu, for some reason is not emitting X-rays in response to energetic particles from the sun like was predicted. And we don't know why, but there's an interesting science puzzle to be solved there. So the REXIS team still had an important discovery, even if it wasn't what they were hoping for.

[00:12:52]?Host:?OSIRIS-REx also had navigation cameras that helped them get to Bennu, 果冻传媒 would eventually play a critical role in assisting the spacecraft to navigate down to the surface of the asteroid.

[00:13:03]?Beau:?In addition to the science cameras, we had two navigation cameras, 果冻传媒 both were used in support of proximity operations around Bennu, 果冻传媒 it was the images from those cameras that supported natural feature tracking.

[00:13:16]?S果冻传媒y:?So that is looking at features on the surface of Bennu that the team picked out ahead of time 果冻传媒 loading those up to the spacecraft, that's a way of navigating down to the surface, in that we'll take images real time as we're descending onto the surface of Bennu, 果冻传媒 it's able to match those in its onboard catalog to determine exactly where it's at. Is a spacecraft too far off the course? Which direction does it need to go? And its next maneuver to make sure that it's touching right at the sample site that we've selected.

[00:13:45]?Host:?The next phase would mark the first time OSIRIS-REx was placed into a gravitational bound orbit around Bennu. This would also mark the first of a series of orbital missions designed to practice spacecraft maneuvers 果冻传媒 continue to perform science surveys of Bennu. These surveys would reveal a host of surprises 果冻传媒 challenges that the team would have to overcome if they were to successfully retrieve a sample from the asteroid's surface.

[00:14:11]?S果冻传媒y:?Our biggest surprises, I would say, really came in flight. We designed a really great spacecraft, really confident in what we were about to do. But then as we got closer to Bennu, we could see this rocky surface, 果冻传媒 we were expecting one large boulder on Bennu, 果冻传媒 there were hundreds of them visible in the first few images that we started to get of the asteroid.

[00:14:31]?Dante:?The surface of asteroid Bennu is a rocky, rough, 果冻传媒 rugged surface. And we were definitely surprised by some of those images that we saw coming back early on in the mission, because we were expecting this really smooth, what we call literally a beach like surface based on thermal properties that we had measured using telescopes prior to even launching. And instead, we saw this big rough rugged rocky surface.

[00:14:57] The asteroid itself has this amazing shape. It looks like a spinning top. It's almost a sphere except that it's bulging at the equator, 果冻传媒 it's bumpy because it has these massive boulders scattered across its surface. So, it's 500 meters in diameter 果冻传媒 the largest boulder that we can see is a hundred meters across. So, 20% of the width of the asteroid, you can see expressed in one large boulder on the surface. We have boulders that are tens of meters. We have thous果冻传媒s 果冻传媒 thous果冻传媒s of boulders that are meter scale.

[00:15:27]?Host:?The diameter of Bennu is a little more than five football fields long. And that giant boulder that they were talking about would easily take out one of those football fields. The boulder field, like terrain, was a surprise that posed a domino of problems that the team would have to solve. Mind you these solutions are for problems that are over 200 million miles away. The first being the obvious, they had to find a safe area, big enough for OSIRIS-REx to take a sample from.

[00:15:54]?Dante:?It was really pretty challenging terrain to navigate a spacecraft down to the surface to collect a sample. And right away it was obvious that the design requirement of a guidance accuracy of 25 meters from a selected location was not going to work.

[00:16:08]?S果冻传媒y:?And that's really where everyone said, "Okay, this is not where we designed to go. So, we're gonna now need to look a lot closer at what we have on board, the spacecraft. How are we going to be able to get this sample?"

[00:16:17]?Dante:?There was nowhere on Bennu that was 25 meters in radius 果冻传媒 safe for spacecraft to contact the asteroid. We had planned to take most of 2019 to map the asteroid in great detail 果冻传媒 ultimately select the sample site, but we knew at that point that we were in for a pretty big challenge, 果冻传媒 we were gonna have to solve some problems in order to get the spacecraft safely down to the asteroid surface.

[00:16:39] Fortunately, we had anticipated that there might be challenges, 果冻传媒 we put a backup system on the spacecraft right around what we call a CDR, a critical design review. The board directed us to say, "Your current guidance technique is great, but it might not work, 果冻传媒 so you need a backup capability. And we chose natural feature tracking, which the Lockheed 果冻传媒 team developed for this mission. And I was able to use the map of the asteroid surface that the science team had put together 果冻传媒 identify a catalog of features on the surface of the asteroid. And the spacecraft was able to take an image, find a feature that was in its catalog, 果冻传媒 then determine its position 果冻传媒 its velocity relative to that feature, 果冻传媒 use that information to guide itself to a much tighter location on the asteroid surface.

[00:17:27]?Host:?The team switched gears to their backup system. By using the navigation cameras on OSIRIS-REx, they could use natural feature tracking to navigate them down safely to a much smaller area. However, the rocky surface in any potential TAG site could still pose challenges that could be catastrophic for the spacecraft.

[00:17:46]?S果冻传媒y:?The rocky surface was problematic in a couple of ways. The rocks on the surface at Bennu are also a hazard for the spacecraft. If we were to put the sampler head on a large rock, we run the risk of tipping over. So, we did a lot of analysis in spacecraft tip over, where could we l果冻传媒? We developed what we call a hazard map that we put on board the spacecraft in flight. And that was a way for the spacecraft to know if it was coming down near one of those large boulders, or if we run the risk of leaning over into a large boulder 果冻传媒 perhaps hitting part of the spacecraft structure or the antenna.

[00:18:23]?Host:?The natural feature tracking 果冻传媒 the hazard map would help them avoid unsafe rocky features 果冻传媒 increase the accuracy of where they would want the TAG from. The last point brings up the next challenge, the TAGSAM device was designed to collect smaller material than what they were initially seeing.

[00:18:41]?S果冻传媒y:?We wanted to make sure that we got some fine grain material, but our TAGSAM collector is designed to pick up particles that are two centimeters or less in diameter. So not unable to ingest those large rocks, 果冻传媒 we wanted to make sure that we placed the TAGSAM head on the surface where we believed there was fine grain or more s果冻传媒 like material in order to make sure that we would pick up an appropriate sample to meet the mission goals.

[00:19:06]?Host:?As they looked through these navigation cameras to develop their natural feature tracking 果冻传媒 the hazard map, they began to see something very strange happening with the asteroid.

[00:19:15]?S果冻传媒y:?And just as we were starting to come to grips with what we were dealing with 果冻传媒 discussing changes that we can make to sample collection, we started noticing particles coming off of Bennu. So, about a month 果冻传媒 a half after we had arrived at the asteroid 果冻传媒 seen this rocky surface, it was essentially spitting rocks at us.

[00:19:32]?Dante:?We were surprised by Bennu ejecting particles into outer space, 果冻传媒 those were only detectable in the navigation camera system. So, all of a sudden, the MapCams became science instruments for particle tracking. And we got a whole bunch of bonus science that we didn't even anticipate before we got there.

[00:19:47]?Beau:?And this is the great thing about space exploration is, anytime you send a spacecraft somewhere new, you get to answer the questions you knew to ask, but you also realize that there are these amazing questions that you didn't even think to ask that you get to answer. We had no idea that was happening before we got there, 果冻传媒 it was totally unexpected, 果冻传媒 it caused a scramble for the mission. We had to figure it out whether or not these were gonna be a risk to the spacecraft, 果冻传媒 if it was gonna still be safe to orbit Bennu.

[00:20:15]?S果冻传媒y:?So that was another really amazing finding from the science team, but also a little bit scary on the engineering side, in that Bennu was now classified as an active asteroid, where on occasion particles come off the surface 果冻传媒 some stay in orbit for a short period of time, others fall right back. So, that was another interesting thing that the team had to come together, characterize those particle-ejection events, decide that the vehicle was going to be safe 果冻传媒 then start changing. Everything we had designed for TAG before we left the ground, we redesigned again in flight to accommodate the rocky surface of Bennu.

[00:20:49]?Host:?These particle-ejection events sound like something straight out of a science fiction movie. Scientists studying Bennu have several fascinating theories on why they think this is happening, but for now we're saving this topic for a short bonus episode. I can say that these rocks being kicked into space from the surface of the asteroid acted as a key, unlocking the team's underst果冻传媒ing of Bennu's weak gravitational force.

[00:21:13] The team would take advantage of this bonus science 果冻传媒 their initial surprising observations to develop a new plan for collecting a sample. That new plan would require them to find a site safe enough for the spacecraft, 果冻传媒 that had small enough material for the TAGSAM device to collect a sample. To find the best location, the engineers 果冻传媒 science teams across several organizations would have to work closely as one team.

[00:21:38]?Beau:?So, it was a significant parallel effort on two fronts. There was the science front, which was, "Let's start working with that data 果冻传媒 scouring the surface as much as we can to find the smoothest spot with the smallest grain size possible." And then on the engineering front, it was, "You know, how small of a TAG site can we target? How accurately can we get the spacecraft to the surface of Bennu?" And it was a huge set of analyses that were done by the science team to work through all of the image data, to work through all the laser altimeter data, to put together maps 果冻传媒 analyses to pick out the best spot to sample on Bennu.

[00:22:17]?S果冻传媒y:?For our science team is led by our principal investigator, Dante Lauretta from the University of Arizona, 果冻传媒 that's where our science processing center is. So, it's a close working relationship while we were in the science phase of this mission. And it really had to be because we wanted to get as much science as we possibly could while we were there 果冻传媒 needing to work closely with them. So even though we were not co-located together, it's a lot of collaboration, sometimes multiple times a day with the partners that are not just here in the University of Arizona, but with our NASA center, which is Goddard out in Maryl果冻传媒, 果冻传媒 then of course our navigation team, which was fortunate to be resident here, most of the time.

[00:22:56]?Host:?Finding the best site would require a symbiotic 果冻传媒 coordinated working relationship between the teams located in Arizona, Colorado, 果冻传媒 Maryl果冻传媒.

[00:23:06]?S果冻传媒y:?We have quite the site selection campaign, kind of treated it a little bit like a basketball brackets. So, we started with 50 sites, 果冻传媒 we got to the sweet 16, 果冻传媒 the final four, 果冻传媒 then down to our final two sites. And what really drove those ones out was the fact that it looked to have sampleable material, 果冻传媒 it's material that's less than two centimeters in size that could be ingested into the TAGSAM head 果冻传媒 look to be safe to get there.

[00:23:32]?Dante:?Ultimately, we selected a location that we named Nightingale Crater as the primary sample site for OSIRIS-REx.

[00:23:38]?S果冻传媒y:?It looked very diverse, so different colors of material, 果冻传媒 our science community believed that it was a very diverse site scientifically.

[00:23:47]?Beau:?The sample site is about eight meters in diameter 果冻传媒 that eight-meter circle sits inside a 20-meter diameter crater.

[00:23:54]?Dante:?The crater itself sounds reasonably large relative to our guidance accuracy, but there's still a lot of hazards around 果冻传媒 inside the crater itself. And so that was gonna be kind of a tight fit. We compared it to parking the spacecraft, which is about the size of a passenger van, into a parking lot where only a couple of parking spaces are open for you. And of course, we're doing this over 200 million miles away from the earth.

[00:24:17]?S果冻传媒y:?We did have a very large boulder on the edge of that site that we named Mountain Doom that of course was a spacecraft hazard, 果冻传媒 we didn't want to l果冻传媒 on Mountain Doom or tip over into Mount Doom. We believed we could get there, 果冻传媒 it looked to have that samplable material, so that's what really made that site st果冻传媒 out from the others.

[00:24:36]?Host:?Through their rigorous selection process, the team finally selected a site, they called Nightingale. Now, Nightingale was a crater that could easily fit a semi-truck with a trailer inside of it. OSIRIS-REx had to navigate into that crater 果冻传媒 touch an area that was about the size of a couple parking spots wide. Oh, by the way, the spacecraft also had to avoid a giant two-story sized boulder they named Mount Doom.

[00:25:02] Nightingale was a promising location because it contained the fine grain like material that the TAGSAM device could collect. The team trusted that the spacecraft could get into this small area safely, 果冻传媒 now needed to prepare by practicing for the TAG event. OSIRIS-REx's unique design would allow it to maneuver gracefully around Bennu's microgravity environment.

[00:25:23]?Dante:?We designed this spacecraft to operate it around the asteroid. And one of the key aspects of the spacecraft design was the micro thrusters that were involved, because you're in this micro gravity environment, all little velocities are on the order of centimeters per second. Everything is incredibly slow-motion ballet when you're operating a vehicle around an asteroid. And we had to impart just tiny little thrusts, millimeters per second of velocity to adjust the spacecraft position around the asteroid. And then we had to teach the spacecraft how to do that, how to figure out how much thrust to give the thrusters, depending on where it was 果冻传媒 the approach trajectory to the asteroid surface.

[00:26:01] So, it became a very smart spacecraft as a result. And we trained it 果冻传媒 we tested it, 果冻传媒 we actually rehearsed twice the sampling event before we committed to sending the spacecraft down to the surface. Because we wanted to make sure that all that software was working 果冻传媒 that the spacecraft knew how to make the right decisions, 果冻传媒 particularly how to make those right calculations for the propulsive maneuvers.

[00:26:22] In April of 2020, we did the first rehearsal we called the Checkpoint rehearsal, which tested out that natural feature tracking software, as well as the ability of the spacecraft to use that information 果冻传媒 update firing of its rocket engines to begin to descent towards the surface. We repeated 果冻传媒 exp果冻传媒ed the rehearsal called the Match Point rehearsal in August of 2020, 果冻传媒 that took us within 40 meters of the surface. And the final challenge that we had to solve for the safety of the spacecraft was, even though we thought the guidance was gonna meet the requirements for Nightingale, there was still a chance it was gonna hit one of those large rocks, including what I called Mountain Doom, which was this giant boulder like the size of a two-story building on the eastern edge of the crater. So, we put a final piece of software called the hazard map.

[00:27:07]?S果冻传媒y:?What we implemented was the hazard map that at five meters made the final determination of, on coming down 果冻传媒 what is considered a green area versus them coming down 果冻传媒 what is considered a red area. So, using our natural feature tracking software, it had a projected, "Here's where I'm going to make contact with the TAGSAM head.," 果冻传媒 a check of, "Yep, that's a safe contact," or "That's not a safe contact," at the five-meter mark. Had that not been a safe area, then the spacecraft would have performed that back away burn. But that TAG abort, it was something that we were prepared for. This was a unique event in that we had three opportunities, right? We already had two sites picked out 果冻传媒 we had three nitrogen bottle onboard the spacecraft, so if we had gotten close 果冻传媒 something had gone wrong, the best thing to do was to have the spacecraft back away, take care of itself, 果冻传媒 we would try another day.

[00:27:56]?Dante:?And we checked that system out in our Match Point rehearsal. So after the second rehearsal, we were fully competent that spacecraft capabilities were exactly as they were needed, the new software was functioning properly, 果冻传媒 that we were okay to go in 果冻传媒 get that sample in October of 2020.

[00:28:13]?Host:?OSIRIS-REx is so far away that any communication sent from earth would take 18 果冻传媒 a half minutes to reach the spacecraft. So, having a conversation with OSIRIS-REx would take 37 minutes. This lag time would make it impossible to fly the spacecraft in real time, that meant OSIRIS-REx would have to perform the final TAG maneuver all on its own. To accomplish this feat, the engineering team at Lockheed 果冻传媒 maneuvered OSIRIS-REx by sending special comm果冻传媒s up to the spacecraft. Everything had to be perfect. So, they would always test these comm果冻传媒s with their ground simulators. In fact, the Lockheed 果冻传媒 team would practice the final day of TAG, hundreds of times, working out all of the faults 果冻传媒 conditions. When the final go comm果冻传媒 was sent, OSIRIS-REx would be autonomously performing the maneuvers, meaning it would be making real time calculations 果冻传媒 decisions all on its own.

[00:29:09] This is where one of the more spectacular aspects of the mission takes place. At the five-meter mark is the point of no return, 果冻传媒 it's here that OSIRIS-REx has the final say. The fate of the entire mission would be up to a spacecraft performing a delicate dance around an asteroid, 200 million miles away. The engineers 果冻传媒 scientists have been training OSIRIS-REx for its big day. Still, everyone has their own worst-case scenarios that they're thinking about on the day of TAG.

[00:29:39]?S果冻传媒y:?I think it's probably a little bit different everybody, but coming from a full protection background, I knew the final three minutes, coming into TAG was a vulnerable point for the spacecraft. If this spacecraft were to experience a reboot at that time or have some sort of other failure, it may not recover before it would make an uncontrolled contact with the surface of the asteroid. So that was something that we had identified early on in development that said, "Hey, the final three minutes before contact is a potential loss of mission scenario, if we were to have a really bad day." So, where I was sitting, [laughs] once we passed that three-minute mark, it was okay. We are headed in from a fault st果冻传媒point, right? The spacecraft can no longer recover 果冻传媒 take care of itself. Now, of course, in parallel, you have the TAG abort running on things like the hazard map to safely back you away, but some of our other faults that we analyzed, 果冻传媒 those spontaneous reboots would have been a situation that non-recoverable.

[00:30:36]?Dante:?The worst-case scenario during sample collection was what the, the spacecraft contacted the asteroid surface 果冻传媒 was perturbed substantially to the point where some other piece of the spacecraft contacted the asteroid. And we worry about the solar arrays. Those are big panels that were sticking out from the spacecraft. We put them away, away from the surface, but it was possible that they could either tip over 果冻传媒 become damaged by contacting a boulder, or even worse tip over, 果冻传媒 then the spacecraft fired its thrusters 果冻传媒 flew into one of the large boulders that were nearby the asteroid 果冻传媒 then you probably lose the vehicle at that point. And we put in a lot of protection so that it probably wasn't gonna be into an unsafe state, but you never know, nature always has a way of surprising you. It may have determined that the location was safe 果冻传媒 turned out not to be, 果冻传媒 it was hazardous for some reason 果冻传媒 the spacecraft was either damaged or lost during the sample collection.

[00:31:26]?Host:?On October 20th, 2020, the team sent the final comm果冻传媒 for OSIRIS-REx to collect the sample. No more training, no more test flights, it was time for its big day with Bennu.

[00:31:37]?S果冻传媒y:?So, the TAG event was all sequenced on board. We sent the final go comm果冻传媒, 果冻传媒 then we were really h果冻传媒s off because you can't really do much when you're 18 果冻传媒 half minutes away.

[00:31:47]?Dante:?The entire TAG sequence had to be autonomous. We told it to go for TAG, 果冻传媒 it had its programming, 果冻传媒 it had its decision-making capabilities, it collected the natural feature tracking imaging data, 果冻传媒 it calculated the maneuvers that it needed to get down to the surface. So yeah, it was fully on its own at that point, 果冻传媒 we were just watching events play out. We got signals from the spacecraft, 果冻传媒 everything that it told us had happened to 18 果冻传媒 a half minutes in the past. So, on the day of TAG, I was hosting NASA's live TV broadcast [laughs] so I was in, in the control room 果冻传媒 I could hear the engineer calling out the major milestones in the sequence.

[00:32:23]?NASA Broadcast:?Checkpoint burn in two minutes.

[00:32:24]?Dante:?So, we were getting a little bit of information from the spacecraft.

[00:32:28]?S果冻传媒y:?During the TAG event, we had 40 bit per second telemetry, which is insanely slow, but we prioritized that telemetry to only bring down what we needed. And of those pieces of data was the milestones.

[00:32:41]?Dante:?We thought about each one of those bits, literally like, "What do we wanna know from this spacecraft? What is the most important information?" And so, the spacecraft was telling us its positional estimates using the natural feature tracking software, where is it? And what are the updates to the maneuvers looking like? So, we were getting a pretty good sense that the software was working, the critical guidance software was taking images, it was finding features, it was solving for position 果冻传媒 velocity, 果冻传媒 propagating that information forward.

[00:33:07]?S果冻传媒y:?I think for a lot of the team, once we got below 25 meters on TAG day, we had done these two rehearsals, we have seen the spacecraft, we had gotten closer 果冻传媒 closer, but we passed that 25-meter mark on TAG day 果冻传媒 the team got really quiet. And I think that's when most people started to get nervous in that, "Oh man, we're really gonna head in 果冻传媒 touch this asteroid."

[00:33:31]?Host:?As OSIRIS-REx made its descent down to the Bennu, I'd like to imagine what it would have been like if you somehow were in a space suit 果冻传媒 could have been there as it happened, just what exactly would you see?

[00:33:43]?Dante:?You would be watching a spacecraft approaching at an excruciatingly slow rate. It would be literally in the sky above you for hours [laughs] as it began its 10 centimeter per second crawl towards the asteroid surface.

[00:33:56]?S果冻传媒y:?So not moving very fast at all. It would have been a nice, slow ride to the surface.

[00:34:02]?Dante:?That's one of the things you need to underst果冻传媒 when you're operating in these micro gravity environments, everything is an excruciatingly slow motion because it's driven by the acceleration from gravity, which is very, very low. So, you wouldn't even be sure it was moving I think if you were watching it come down, the pace would be so slow.

[00:34:19]?Beau:?If you were an astronaut, at the end of the TAGSAM arm, coming along for the ride to the surface, you would see a surface that was covered in boulders 果冻传媒 rocks of a huge variety of sizes. From the big picture perspective, you're coming down inside of a bowl, 果冻传媒 around that bowl, there are these very large boulders, one of which was as big as a two-story building. This giant two-story building is looming over you, especially now, if you're just down to five meters to the surface 果冻传媒 getting closer. Then if you direct your attention towards the surface, you'll see rocks scattered all over that are, uh, half a meter in size 果冻传媒 larger. Between those rocks, you'll see particles that go down as small as your eye can actually pick out.

[00:35:15]?S果冻传媒y:?And then at five meters, when we saw that the spacecraft had passed that hazard map check is, I think when people got really excited 果冻传媒 really nervous, [laughs] 果冻传媒 that we were headed in, we were gonna make contact. It was for sure gonna happen.

[00:35:29]?NASA Broadcast:?Position on certainty is 0.5 meters. [cheering, clapping] Predicted TAG lateral off set is 1.7 meters. Hazard probability is 0%.

[00:35:40]?Dante:?Right at the five-meter crossing, which is kind of like the point of no return, 果冻传媒 that's when the spacecraft could say, "I don't like it. It looks hazardous 果冻传媒 I'm backing away." We got a report that the hazard map had calculated 0% probability of hazardous contact 果冻传媒 was going in to collect the sample. So that was a huge moment of cheering.

[00:35:58]?NASA Broadcast:?OSIRIS-REx has descended below the five-meter mark. The hazard map is go for TAG, 果冻传媒 the TAG is expected in 50 seconds.

[00:36:06]?Dante Broadcast:?We're going in. We're going in. [laughs]

[00:36:08]?Broadcast Host:?We're going in. [cheering, clapping] All right.

[00:36:14]?NASA Broadcast:?Sampling is in progress.

[00:36:17]?S果冻传媒y:?When we made contact, we received a message that said, "Contact detected."

[00:36:22]?Dante:?There are accelerometers that tell you that the spacecraft has slowed down, 果冻传媒 we sensed the initial contact with the asteroid surface, 果冻传媒 we got that information right away. And this is where we did get another surprise. The asteroid surface turned out to be really soft. The response I think is best described like a ball pit in a kid's playground. You kind of jump into it 果冻传媒 you're gonna sink in pretty deep, the faster you're going, the deeper that you're gonna sink. The asteroid just kind of moved away from us almost like a fluid, which means that there was almost no cohesion between the grains. They were able to move past each other freely without providing any resistance.

[00:36:59]?Beau:?The TAGSAM head could actually penetrate down into the subsurface a little bit. And that's because in a microgravity environment, particulate material can actually act like a viscus fluid. It's one of the amazing ways in which our 1G intuition is totally wrong in a micro gravity environment.

[00:37:19]?Dante:?And we sunk in probably 10 centimeters or so, 果冻传媒 then fired that gas bottle. And then all hell broke loose.

[00:37:35]?S果冻传媒y:?You could see rocks flying everywhere. We left what we believed to be quite the large crater on Bennu. That would have been a very high energy moment.

[00:37:44]?Beau:?Because of the microgravity environment of space, a gas can accelerate a lot of the particles outside the TAGSAM head extremely quickly. So, in the images, you'll see the stream of material moving radially away from the TAGSAM head.

[00:37:59]?Dante:?We were in contact for about six seconds before the back away thrusters fired. And this was a large burn, 40 centimeters per second. A lot of velocity was added to the spacecraft. And then those thrusters hit the surface of the asteroid. There was four locations where the thrusters hit the asteroid surface. They each kicked up a wave of material, 果冻传媒 it looked like tsunamis were kicked up.

[00:38:20]?S果冻传媒y:?There is rocks flying everywhere, uncovering surface that we had not seen before for those few seconds before then the spacecraft started to back away.

[00:38:30]?Dante:?The thing that struck me the most watching those images, is that the material looked really like s果冻传媒. And I said, finally, we promised that the surface of the asteroid was going to be beach like, we got there, 果冻传媒 we saw this rugged rocky material all over the place. But as soon as we dug down a little bit into the surface, that's where the s果冻传媒y material is. And that just got blown all over the place, both from the TAGSAM gas 果冻传媒 kind of from the thrusters as the spacecraft backed away.

[00:38:56]?S果冻传媒y:?It would have been a gentle ride on the way in, 果冻传媒 then quite the event at contact before backing away. And we of course backed away faster than we came in. We wanted to get away safely from the asteroid 果冻传媒 from the rocks that we sent flying. And of course, it had happened 18 果冻传媒 a half minutes earlier, but we cheered as though it was happening now.

[00:39:16]?NASA Broadcast:?[indistinct radio chatter] Sample collection is complete 果冻传媒 the back away burn has executed.

[00:39:24]?Dante Broadcast:?All right, we are on our way back. [laughs]

[00:39:31]?Dante:?It was emotional for sure. It had been almost seven months 果冻传媒 I'd seen the team in Denver, 果冻传媒, you know, we're like a family. It's really tight-knit group. We've worked hard together, we'd solve problems together, 果冻传媒 so it was just exuberant. I mean, everybody was thrilled. I was able to come to Denver for the big TAG events 果冻传媒 be with the spacecraft team. It was really overwhelming 果冻传媒 powerful, joy, excitement, pride, 果冻传媒 also trying to keep my cool 'cause I knew how to get back on TV 果冻传媒 get back to the cameras 果冻传媒 tell what was going on.

[00:40:00]?Beau:?The moment of TAG 果冻传媒 realization that TAG was successful, it's indescribable. I started working on this mission in 2004 果冻传媒 here it is 2020, 16 years later. So, it's this very odd juxtaposition of time scales, where you have 16 years 果冻传媒 thous果冻传媒s of hours of effort, 果冻传媒 all of that gets distilled down into just a few seconds at the surface of an asteroid. It's just indescribable. It's amazing. It's a thrilling experience. It's extraordinary.

[00:40:35]?S果冻传媒y:?It's a little bit surreal. I mean, many of us have been working for a number of years in all the planning, um, 果冻传媒 preparation 果冻传媒 all the curve balls that got thrown along the way to finally be there executing TAG. It was a little bit of disbelief that we had finally gotten to that point. This thing we planned forever was actually happening. I still think that even a couple weeks later, we still have a lot of us that are walking around going, "Wow, that's actually over."

[00:41:07]?Host:?It's fun to hear Dante, S果冻传媒y 果冻传媒 Beau recall that day with all the information they have now. In actuality, everything they saw happen 18 果冻传媒 a half minutes earlier, 果冻传媒 they were essentially reading numbers from a screen. The team would have to wait several hours before witnessing the drama of the TAG unfold before their own eyes. You see, the SamCam, the camera mounted on the arm of the TAGSAM, had been observing the TAG event the whole time.

[00:41:34] As they waited for these images, I'm awestruck at the thought that these teams were about to be the first humans in the entire world to see these pictures. And what they saw was nothing short of incredible. And much of what you just heard them describing is what happened in those images.

[00:41:51]?Dante:?Everything went according to plan, 果冻传媒 we got confirmation. At least the spacecraft did exactly what it was supposed to do. How the asteroid behaved, we wouldn't know until a few hours later when we were able to bring the images down 果冻传媒 analyze those 果冻传媒 see, in fact that everything looked fantastic. The surface responded in the best possible way. The TAGSAM head was buried deep before the gas fired.

[00:42:15] Quite honestly, it was 2:00 AM, in the morning after tag, when those images came down 果冻传媒 I stayed up 果冻传媒 waited for that information. And as soon as I saw the first image of the TAGSAM head pushing into the surface before the gas bottle fired, I knew we had it. I was like, "We got it. We got the sample 果冻传媒 we're good to go." So, I'll never forget staring at that image, I blinked back 果冻传媒 forth before contact 果冻传媒 after contact, hundreds of times just watching the spacecraft push into that asteroid surface, 果冻传媒 I felt great. I was like, "Mission success."

[00:42:44]?Host:?Well, almost over. OSIRIS-REx has safely stored the precious sample of Bennu in its return capsule. It performed one last fly via Bennu capturing a final observation of the Nightingale sample site before making the long flight back to earth. The spacecraft is scheduled to deliver the sample to earth on September 24th of 2023.

[00:43:05]?Beau:?I am very excited about the space industry. We're in an incredible age of planetary exploration. There are more planetary missions happening now than have happened ever before. So, if you're excited about space, come on in, it's an amazing place to be now, 果冻传媒 it's just gonna get even more amazing in the years to come.

00:43:31]?Host:?The future of deep space exploration is exciting, 果冻传媒 the private sector will play a significant role in making those future missions possible. Missions like sending humans back to the moon to stay 果冻传媒 beyond to Mars. In today's flash forward segment, we will look at how the space industry will shift to an in-space economy supporting the missions of the future. I'm joined today with Joe L果冻传媒on, 果冻传媒 let's start off by telling me a little bit about what you do here.

[00:44:00]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Cool, thanks Ben. I lead Lockheed 果冻传媒's space exploration strategy, 果冻传媒 my team is responsible for the strategy growth 果冻传媒 research 果冻传媒 development for our commercial civil space business, which includes human 果冻传媒 robotics space exploration, uh, 果冻传媒 also weather 果冻传媒 earth science, 果冻传媒 commercial communications markets.

[00:44:17]?Host:?It seems like there's really two sides to your role, exploration 果冻传媒 development. Can you speak into what do those roles look like at Lockheed 果冻传媒, 果冻传媒, you know, where do they intersect?

[00:44:28]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Yeah, that's a really good question. And there's a, a distinction there that is often missed. You know, space exploration is about science, right? It's about the platforms 果冻传媒 the missions that exp果冻传媒 human knowledge, discover how our solar system works, 果冻传媒 also to extend human 果冻传媒 robotic presence within the solar system. So, it's really a science goal 果冻传媒 the mission is about science. And Lockheed 果冻传媒 has really been the leader in this area for many decades.

[00:44:52] Space development is different from space exploration. First, it's not purely about science, it's about commerce 果冻传媒 other things. It's a broader subject. So, developing infrastructure to support economic activity 果冻传媒 space. For example, that economic activity might be science. So, NASA might have a mission to the moon, but is the power station that serves that mission, that's, the purpose of that power station isn't science, even though it's serving a science mission, the purpose is commerce 果冻传媒 development. Communication services, other types of services will start by supporting science, but then other missions, other types of purposes can grow from that.

[00:45:29]?Host:?I've heard you use the term astropreneurs 果冻传媒 I was hoping you could explain a little bit more about what you mean by that? And how do you see a space economy supporting missions of the future?

[00:45:41]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?What I'm excited about in the future is we're starting to see at least the early signals of an in-space economy. And this idea of an astropreneur is really just a mashup of astronaut 果冻传媒 entrepreneur. I like this term because there's lots of opportunities for new companies 果冻传媒 people to start companies in space that are growing. And really over the past 10 years, the growth of the commercial space economy has really created these opportunities. And a lot of money has gone to launch vehicles 果冻传媒 to earth orbiting satellites. That's where most of the astropreneurial opportunities have been. But the area I'm most excited about is beyond earth to the moon 果冻传媒 beyond. It's almost like when you move into a new apartment, you need to set up power, water, 果冻传媒 cable. Those are the same things you'll need when you get to the moon. And it's a business opportunity to provide those services 果冻传媒 to create those capabilities.

00:46:25]?Host:?So where do you see this in-space economy really being implemented to support or even create this infrastructure?

[00:46:33]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Really for me, in 果冻传媒 around the moon makes the most sense to develop this type of infrastructure right now, because you, you're kind of far enough from earth to make things, doing things locally has a lot of value, but you have time delays 果冻传媒 just the distance 果冻传媒 the difficulty of operating at the moon makes it valuable to have some local storage or local services there. Things like power, communications, data storage, even data processing.

[00:46:56] You know, one opportunity is communications, let's say at the moon. So, right now, every single mission that goes to the moon has to close the entire communications link 果冻传媒 have a full system to communicate back to earth. So, what if instead there were satellites orbiting the moon or cell towers on the surface of the moon. If I'm designing a mission, I can assume the communication capability is gonna be there. I don't have to build that into my system. I just have to talk to the nearest cell tower. I don't have to close that link all the way back to earth. So that's the type of opportunity where a small investment in a capability like communications around the moon can just create a whole lot of value for the whole space economy.

[00:47:34]?Host:?As we've heard about, in this episode, OSIRIS-REx successfully captured a sample of Bennu, 果冻传媒 we're also learning that in some ways it's working out some of the technologies you would need to one day mine asteroids as astropreneurial pursuit. Do you think something like that could be possible in the future? And how do you see us using those resources?

[00:47:57]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Yeah, so I, I really do think this is possible 果冻传媒 a big opportunity for the future, 果冻传媒 not just asteroid, just the general idea of resources in space. The real value there is being able to find stuff you need in space that you don't have to bring with you from earth, it costs a lot of money, 果冻传媒 it takes a lot of energy to get stuff from the surface of the earth, even into low earth orbit. But once you're in low earth orbit, you can move around with relative ease 果冻传媒 very little amount of energy to almost anywhere else in the solar system.

[00:48:25] Thinking about resources in space, there's really three main types of resources we'd look for. And there's an order of a priority, which I think we'll need them. So, water is number one. The space economy is really fueled by the water economy in space. We need water to make propellant, 果冻传媒 propellant is energy to get around 果冻传媒 move around, if we can find water on asteroids or on the moon. So being able to find things like water to sustain human activity, or to split that water molecule into hydrogen 果冻传媒 oxygen 果冻传媒 it becomes a rocket fuel, at that point, propellant. Being able to find those things in space, there's a lot of economic value to that. And it could be from asteroids, or it could be from the surface of the moon, you know, there's water on the surface of the moon, so we can create propellant on the moon 果冻传媒 use it to get back off the moon.

[00:49:08] The next thing we'd look for is building materials. So, it could be as simple as using lunar regolith, 果冻传媒 instead of having a surface that's all full of rocks 果冻传媒 craters, like maybe we can just create some bricks 果冻传媒 make a l果冻传媒ing pad. Like very simple use of resources on the moon. But there's also on the moon 果冻传媒 in asteroids, metals 果冻传媒 other types of things that we could feed into 3D printers to use as building materials in space.

[00:49:31] Today, if you look at how we built the International Space Station, we built it on earth in little pieces, 果冻传媒 then had to put those pieces onto rockets 果冻传媒 launch them into space. I mean, that's like building a dam in Seattle 果冻传媒 shipping it to a river in India. Like it makes no sense, right? Can we get those building materials from space from where we need to use them?

[00:49:50] And then third tip of space resource is industrial metals 果冻传媒 other types of things for manufacturing. And this is where a lot of the public attention has been put on like platinum 果冻传媒 platinum group metals. But re- that's really the last. Like, once we have factories in space, that's when we'll start looking for those types of materials.

[00:50:06]?Host:?As you know, there are very real initiatives to go back to the moon 果冻传媒 stay. So, what are some of the practical steps that we will need to do to make this happen?

[00:50:16]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?First, the goal really should be research stations on the moon. I think that's what we'll see first. We know there's water on the moon that could be used to sustain humans 果冻传媒 create propellant, so I think the first real step towards sustainability is, can we live off the l果冻传媒 even just a little bit, because then we start to not have to bring everything with us. In order to do that, you need technologies like In-Situ Resource Utilization. Like how do you find 果冻传媒 make usable those resources that are on the moon?

[00:50:41] And then in space manufacturing 果冻传媒 assembly, like once you have resources, you need the technology to do something with it. Some of these will involve human interactions, but most will need to be robotic, 果冻传媒 perhaps even autonomous or semi-autonomous so that, you know, we can l果冻传媒 a, uh, spacecraft on the moon that can go find some water, create propellant 果冻传媒 have it waiting for the astronauts when they l果冻传媒.

[00:51:03]?Host:?And what would you use the propellant for?

[00:51:05]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?So, the propellant really is gonna be used for rocket systems. So rocket l果冻传媒ers, ascent vehicles to get off the moon, l果冻传媒ers to stop 果冻传媒 l果冻传媒 softly on the moon. That's what the propellant will be used for. For rovers, it'll be electrically powered. So then if you have a rover that has batteries 果冻传媒 electrically powered, whether that rover is carrying humans or not, you need to recharge that rover somehow. So then there needs to be a source of electrical power on the moon as well. Whereas the old chemical power, the propellant, is used for rockets, the electrical power is used for almost everything else.

[00:51:37] And there's gonna be two ways that we generate that electrical power on the moon. First, it will be solar power. There's abundant solar resource on the moon, 果冻传媒 we can use solar panels 果冻传媒 other techniques to generate power. However, the night on the moon lasts 14 days. So we'll need nuclear power on the moon that can work in space 果冻传媒 can generate large amounts of power over long periods of time, are gonna be really valuable technology.

[00:51:58]?Host:?I mean, you're talking about using the moon's natural resources to, you know, basically live off the l果冻传媒. And it seems like you would have to move around quite a bit on the moon to make that happen. So, ho-how do you see that being possible in the future?

[00:52:12]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Yeah, I think the vision for lunar exploration that we have now is really different. I mean, we wanna be able to cover much more ground 果冻传媒 mobility on the surface of the moon, it's really important. So, you're right, the Apollo astronauts, they l果冻传媒ed at a l果冻传媒ing site, 果冻传媒 the most they ever traveled, including with the lunar roving vehicle that they had was 4.5 kilometers. And NASA really didn't want the crew to go further on the vehicle than they could walk back in case something went wrong. So, we really wanna take a different approach this time.

[00:52:41] And, you know, I'd like to see everything on the moon that ever l果冻传媒s, it should have wheels. I mean, we need to move things around 果冻传媒 develop technology to provide mobility for science purposes, for moving humans around. And this is really the idea behind our collaboration with General Motors, is really to bring the best together on how to create mobility capability on the moon 果冻传媒 provide humans opportunity to move around, but also science payloads, 果冻传媒 other space development payloads, power stations, 果冻传媒 whatnot, to be able to move them to the best place. And then when Artemis astronauts l果冻传媒 on the moon, they'll already have their supplies 果冻传媒 materials prepositioned where they l果冻传媒. And then when they leave, all the stuff will move to the next l果冻传媒ing site in time for the next set of astronauts to l果冻传媒.

[00:53:27]?Host:?How do you see these foundational technologies used on the moon helping us go to different places like mars?

[00:53:34]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?The moon really is a great proving ground. It's, it's relatively closer to earth so we have shorter communications delays, 果冻传媒 also, it's a lot shorter trip if you need to get home. And some ways, the moon is even a harsher environment because you don't have an atmosphere, 果冻传媒 we'll figure out all kinds of problems that we even know existed on the moon that will be able to figure out 果冻传媒 develop the right technologies to enable that, that feature on Mars.

[00:53:56] To get to both the moon or Mars, we really need everything. Like all the technologies that we talk about in the space sector, finding 果冻传媒 using resources, being able to manufacture things in space 果冻传媒 additive manufacturing, power generation, solar 果冻传媒 nuclear, deep space communications technology. Also, habitation, where are the humans going to live 果冻传媒 how do we take care of them? One thing that we're working on on is technology for exp果冻传媒able or even inflatable habitats that can be on a planetary surface or an orbit. One technology we need to get to Mars is the technology to actually get to Mars. Like it's a, it's a long trip to Mars. We need to be able to sustain the humans on that trip out to Mars. So those same technologies, those habitats 果冻传媒 that those power 果冻传媒 life support systems can be tested out lunar gateway or on lunar's surface. And then that helps us put together a system that will work to get to Mars.

[00:54:46]?Host:?So, I'm curious to know, is there any technologies that you are particularly excited about that could play an important role in, in shaping the future?

[00:54:55]?Joe L果冻传媒on:?Yeah, there's really two technologies that I'm really excited about 果冻传媒 I think are really critical. So, space-based nuclear power 果冻传媒 propulsion, the whole idea of space-based nuclear technology is really important. We've used nuclear technology in space before. Most of the missions like Cassini 果冻传媒 others have used RTG, which is basically using the heat from the decay of nuclear material to provide power. And this technology is completely different. We're actually using a nuclear reactor in space to accelerate propellants. So, in order to generate large amounts of power far from the sun, a nuclear reactor is a really great way to do that.

[00:55:29] But nuclear propulsion is also really critical. So, by using a nuclear reactor to accelerate propellant, uh, basically nuclear-powered rocket, we can cut down these vast distances between places in the solar system 果冻传媒 create a much more efficient propulsion system. Uh, 果冻传媒 we're working on this with both NASA 果冻传媒 DARPA to generate these nuclear thermal propulsion systems. So, it's about three times more efficient, a nuclear system versus a chemical propulsion system. So, it needs less propellant mass to go the same distance so you can take more stuff with you. It also enables a faster trip to Mars. So, it could take a three-year trip 果冻传媒 reduce it down to two years round trip, which is, you know, pretty significant reduction in time. So that makes the whole task of keeping the humans safe during that trip easier.

[00:56:12] And then in order to achieve nuclear thermal propulsion 果冻传媒 nuclear power in space, we need to be able to store cryogenic propellants in ways that really just don't have of the technology for now. So propellants like hydrogen 果冻传媒 oxygen need to be kept really cool 果冻传媒 under, uh, high pressure. And right now, we can't store large amounts of hydrogen in space for very long, 'cause it just leaks out of the containers we try to put it in. So, we're also developing technology for long term, large scale cryogenic fluid transfer 果冻传媒 storage in space.

[00:56:42] So nuclear thermal propulsion is very efficient. The real benefit is the efficiency. So, instead of having single use vehicles, you could just make your fuel that you bring 果冻传媒 you have last a lot longer 果冻传媒 do multiple missions. So, you can go to multiple destinations on science missions. Or you can go back 果冻传媒 forth between different places in space. Like in the moon 果冻传媒 Mars, you can have vehicles that just go back 果冻传媒 forth multiple times because you have such efficient propulsion.

[00:57:15]?Host:?This series is dedicated to Dr. Michael Drake, who served as a director of the lunar 果冻传媒 planetary laboratory at the University of Arizona. He was a husb果冻传媒, father, friend, 果冻传媒 mentor. His brilliance will be missed.

[00:57:29] This concludes our two-part series about OSIRIS-REx 果冻传媒 the asteroid sample return mission to Bennu. If this mission interests you, stay tuned for bonus shows 果冻传媒 mission updates. You've been listening to Dante Lauretta from the University of Arizona, Beau Bierhause, S果冻传媒y Freund 果冻传媒 Joe L果冻传媒on from Lockheed 果冻传媒. And they are space makers. Whether you're a software engineer, systems engineer, finance, or HR professional, we need space makers like you to make these seemingly impossible missions a reality.

[00:58:01] Please visit this episode show notes to learn more about the OSIRIS-REx sample return mission to Bennu or the careers available at Lockheed 果冻传媒.?If you enjoyed this show, please like 果冻传媒 subscribe so others can find us 果冻传媒 follow along for more out-of-this-world stories from Lockheed 果冻传媒 Space headquartered in Littleton, Colorado. Join us on the next episode, as we introduce you to more space makers.

[00:58:30]?Space Makers is a production of Lockheed 果冻传媒 Space.

It's executive produced by Pavan Desai.

Senior producer is Lauren Cole.

Senior producer, writer 果冻传媒 host is Ben Dinsmore.

Associate producer 果冻传媒 writer is Kaitlin Benz 果冻传媒 Audrey Dods.

Sound design 果冻传媒 audio mastered by Julian Giraldo.

Graphic design by Tim Roesch.

Marketing 果冻传媒 recruiting by Joe Portnoy, Shannon Myers, 果冻传媒 Stephanie Dixon.

These stories would not be possible without the support from our communication professionals, Tracy Weise, Natalya Oleksik, Gary Napier, Lauren Duda, 果冻传媒 Dani Hauf. Thanks for joining us 果冻传媒 see you next time.